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Re: If I Can't Dance: Why Is The Left So Boring?

This is a generation gap issue. Most of the progressives I know who are 40 or older came of age when the acoustic guitar and the conventions of folk music “meant” protest music. For them, there is something radical about that form of song, and the way that people interact when that music is played.

I am 32, and I grew up in churches and schools were the acoustic guitar and the conventions of folk music were completely emasculated, and rendered insipid and irrelevant (the nuns at my school played folk music- and I wasn’t to hear of Woody Guthrie for another 20 years). I think that is a common experience for people my age: folk music is antiquated and ridiculous.

Happily, many pro-peace, pro-worker and and community-first groups have workers from popular movements-past contributing to the movement. Sadly, they retain strong normative ideas about what “good” or “appropriate” protest music is. And that folk-music stuff keeps rearing up. And it really…. really, turns a lot of the under-40 set WAY off.

I first realized I was a political being when I agreed with the lyrics of, first, U2 and, later, hardcore punk rock. When I came of age in the early 1990s, Hip-Hop and Hardcore Punk were the truly credible forms of protest music. I still feel that way. And when I hear folk music I want to go form my own protest.

Some feel that Noise is the “truest” protest music, some think that Reggae is the most appropriate genre for standing up against the establishment. Some people think that carrying around instruments and have a freeform jam session is the best way to do it. Some think that having a Wobbly sing-along (but nobody ever heard the songs before and had better things to do than learn them) is the "purest expression of the popular struggle". Personally, I think that banging drums and having a sharp, 4 chord type chant is the most invigorating way to stand up for the people in public.

As a group, progressives just don’t all have the same tastes in music. I agree with the “No Music” voice. I think that, IF we all agree with the political message of the occasion, why screw it up by injecting an element upon which there is sharply divided opinion?

Here is the truth of it raw: when you guys bring out the acoustic guitars my mental associations are not “This Machine Kills Fascists” and the Wobblies…I think about all the insipid, irrelevant “A Mighty Wind”-types I’ve encountered and I cringe in embarrassment for you. In the cultural idiom of 2008 USA: that shit’s gay.

I reject the statement that “we” are boring. Fact is, probably a lot more people than you suspect truly hate (H!A!T!E!) folk music but are too nice to tell all the old hippies in the progressive movement to cut that shit out.

Maybe it is the music that you play that is “boring”. Maybe the idea of the "Leftist Political Festival!” is best thrown away because it conjures up visions of old hippies nostalgizing Woodstock and living out something that’s not vital or relevant anymore.

Young progressives didn’t grow up with folk. You did. It meant something progressive to you. It doesn’t for us. Perhaps the most precocious/recalcitrant/sassy/incorrigible idea of all, some under-40-types have the nerve to think that clinging to folk music is a very conservative position: it is imposing upon the present the norms and tastes of 40 years ago.
 
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Re: Re: If I Can't Dance: Why Is The Left So Boring?

I'm hearing all of this talk of how people in the 1960s and earlier used music as part of their movements. This is plain to see.

Did they call it a festival, however? Did CORE try to have the Freedom Rides renamed to the "Freedom Rides Festival" because they were going to sing music moments before and after almost getting killed by the Klan?

I think you're right about the images it conjures up, also. It's worth pointing out that the types of music that get played at things like this usually appeal to only a very narrow, in terms of age and race, segment of the population, and we're trying to be much more diverse than that.

But I digress. The reality is you can perform all of the music you want without a single stage, and I've seen people who are marching perform all sorts of music (from marching bands through riotfolk musicians with a backpack guitar) as they marched, and they didn't need a f'in stage and a "festival" label to do it. But when you want to be a superstar, when you want to be a celebrity, when you want to sell your CDs, I imagine that could get very boring for you.

I think the problem is that David here wants to be a musician but can't be bothered to join the common people where they actually are, so he needs a stage so that people go to him.
 

Generation Gap...sorta, kinda...

I turned 51 last week, and I'm one of those people who instinctively cringe at the very mention of "folk music", and refer to the years 1959-63 as The Great "Folk Scare". My attitude towards folk music very much matches that of John Belushi in Animal House (all you 50-plus types, you know what I mean). The first Dylan album I bought in high school was "Highway 61 Revisited", and my favorite albums of his were always the electric ones. I think Joan Baez is a helluva singer, but artistically overwrought and generally full of herself. My favorite acoustic protest songs are few and far between, among them Dylan's Masters Of War and Bob Marley's Redemption Song.

My favorite protest songs have generally been rock'n'roll songs — The Clash's London's Burning, The Fugs' Kill For Peace, The Who's bone-crushing version of Eddie Cochran's Summertime Blues from Live At Leeds.

The issue Rovics raises here, though, is not so much what style of music works for you as why the hell most antiwar/other Left™ events these days are so friggin' bone-crushingly tedious and boring. ANSWER's the worst of the bunch; my hat's off to 'em for turning the big numbers out, but I think they could get by with half the speakers they usually have, and filling the rest of that time with some goddamn' music of as many styles as possible — hip-hop, reggae, ska, rock'n'roll, and some good old acoustic folkie stuff for all the old Liberal geezers out there.

The last rally I was at that ANSWER put on, the speakers' stand was packed to the gills with the chairs of "steering committees" of so many ANSWER chapters that by the time it was over I found myself asking, "Steering committees? Enough of the friggin' steering committees; don't these people have a goddamn' brakes committee, already? My goddamn' brain is hurting!"

The point here is that speeches, in general, are just plain friggin' boring as shit, unless your speaker happens to be Graylan Hagler or someone else who really knows how to grab your attention and belt out a message. In the past year or two, I'd gotten to the point where, when editing my protest newsreels, I'd go out of my way to edit a piece that deliberately excludes the goddamn' speeches, showing instead action that went down on the streets, backgrounded with either some music performed at the opening rally, or from my old LP collection — anything to avoid subjecting my audience to more rambling from some obscure NGO hack mesmerized by the sound of his own voice coming out of a large PA system.

I don't know about you, but January a year ago, I wasn't exactly inspired by Jesse Jackson yelling "Keep Hope Alive!" ten thousand times; the only speeches I included in my newsreel of that day were a couple of RCP guys rapping through a bullhorn to the impatient crowd waiting for Rev. Jesse to shut the fuck up so they could march — because, quite honestly, out of all the speechifying I heard that day, the two RCP dudes were the only ones who seemed to have anything even halfway interesting to say. (Needless to say, there was no music that day that I recall, and was forced to crib a track off an old Jefferson Airplane album).
 

Re: Generation Gap...sorta, kinda...

yo old man -
Song is titled "London's Calling"
 

Re: Re: Generation Gap...sorta, kinda...

Yo person who is anonymous the Clash also had a song called "London's Burning", but it's ok! You wanted to seem smart and you failed it happens.

London's Burning on youtube:
www.youtube.com/watch

London's Calling on youtube:
www.youtube.com/watch

You shouldn't have attacked this person without actually knowing much about the Clash.

Lets test your knowledge in the song "Straight to Hell" how was the bass drum part done?
 

Re: Re: Generation Gap...sorta, kinda...

No, I meant London's Burning, from the self-title 1977 debut LP — and, yes, I do still have my vinyl copy.

And, that's Mister Old Man, to you. (;^>
 

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