Americans for Middle Eastern Neutrality
www.amenusa.org

Marine tanks rolled into the commercial center, greeted by people cheering and waving white flags: "Thank you, thank you, Mr. Bush!"

(not one thank you heard for the useless U.N.)

oh, I don't think it is the same guy. All them brown guys look alike to you lefties.

...that they shout Thank You Bush. I would, too, if I knew I was gonna be part of a puppet regime and harvest oil money.

The staged event for the media was done right in front of the Palestine hotel filled with media and they didn't notice this and you did.

Not sure if Yank is being satiric, but the 8 April bombing of the Palestine Hotel by US forces let them know what the US 'liberation' forces thought of journos.

Damn, at lest you could use Paint with *some* skill....

It looks like something my 4 year old would come up with.

Grow up!

What I see her is a picture supposedly taken at a
time. Using similar criteria that you might for analysing mainstream media, how do I confirm that time? There is a ton of commentary about the pictures including some touch ups reminiscent of Monday night football--how do I verify it?

Everything is too blury and it's taken from too far
away to tell anything.

Many mainstream Americans understand that they are
being spoon fed "the vision" of American triumph and
virtue. How many leftists understand that left wing
propaganda is equally biased and contortec?

Allah the great and gracious is simply testing believers. The righteous faithful will prevail over the dogs and monkeys - it is written.

The crowd have gone home from the looks of things, because CNN is showing a slideshow where there are clearly people outside across the road from the statue when it toppled - including young children. Sorry I don't have a thumbnail but it's on CNNs audioi slideshow.

It's sorta sad when somebody's stance is picked at on the level of "Oh yeah, well you're just a big liberal poopy-head!"

For the flash impaired here are screen shots of the cnn slide show.

For the flash impaired here are screen shots of the cnn slide show.

Lot's more people in this video. click on the one. "Iraqis celebrate allied arrival"

Almost all the shots in that video are tight on the crowd, there are virtually none with any context. In a few places you can see some depth in the background and it looks like the square is not at any point near being full of people. There's virtually no crowd spillage into the surrounding street which you would expect if the crowd was "large".

You're right! Why would the people of Iraq want freedom? Why would they want to get rid of a ruthless dic...I mean, glorious hero of the people?

After all, look how horrible it is to be a leftie in America. All of the far right-wing extremist news media, universities, Hollywood moviestars and rockstars against you, constant harassment by the secert police, being thrown into shredders for posting on IndyMedia, and having your tongue cut out for simply saying "Bush is stupid" and let's not forget constantly having to wear those itchy tinfoil hats to keep the x-rays from City Hall out of your minds...

Screw you moonbats...one of my young neighbors died so Iraq could be free and 9/11 won't be repeated. He was 19, and not even a U.S. citizen, but he knew what it meant to love one's country, even his ADOPTED COUNTRY, and to be a part of the solution - not the problem, like you freaking parasites.

How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history, along with the Charles Lindberg Hitler lovers, the ol' Communist Party USA, etc?

Bet it sucks.

You sad brainwashed pinhead BUSH lackeys seem like you would more at home in a totalitarian society by the manner of your diatribes.(rants-so you don`t have to go to the dictionary) By your standards, Voltaire would be considered a traitor! With more people like you Bush will be able to shred our Constitution with nary(not)a complaint. Just say "Sieg Heil Mein Fuhrer" and go back to your TV.

Even if the pictures are representative, any hawks seeking an "all's well that ends well" response, should seek it from the weeping mothers of friendly fire military victims who'll wanna know why an evil dictator with abundant (W)eapons of (M)ass (D)estruction (it's been reduced to an acronym now) didn't manage to fire them off in the face of impending demise. If Rummy was able to successfully threaten them DURING a war, were those reported 90 or so deaths a real neccesity? Personally, I believe Sadam's only threat to national security was the possibility of exposing some details of the Reagan/Cheney/Rumsfeld papers which have now been expediciously blocked from the public record by an obliging son. Fuck Iraq. We need an emergency cache of 80 mil to Baltimore Public Schools!

They could use dough boy to put his fat butt on top of the statues and help topple them. It would save a tank's time and energy.

Grow up, and stop trying to see things as purely "right" or "wrong"

Anyone that believed the "statue toppling" event should have been taken at face value is naive. Its too convenient, too many men of the same age that all seemed to know each other a little too well... if they were "ordinary" Iraqis wouldn't they have been conscripted into the army? On the other hand, they are Iraqis, and they're all pleased to see him gone, no matter where they came from. See, democracy means that some people will have been pleased to see him go, and some people will want him back.

And yes, the stuff on this page has probably been edited too to prove the opposing point. Thats what happens, modern media is obsessed with analysis so you're never going to be asked to make your own minds up about a succession of random images. So everyone choose to invest in whatever they decide fits with their particular viewpoint.

Its all true and all not true at the same time. Get your heads around it, its just the bloody editing process.

I'm not quite convinced yet of the accuracy of your fotographs, as indeed, they could have been taken at a very different time than the actions shown on CNN etc, but 1 point in your favour was the image on CNN of two men walking around with a placard denouncing US Human shields. (Wankers go home, i think it said) That was to 'good' to be true. Your town is freed from a brutal dictator and his murderous regime (I think we can al agree on that. You are shown to be elated by this, and yet you worry about some, let's be honest, ineffectual peaceniks in Baghdad, that have not slowed the invasion by one day? No sorry, that makes no sense. Maybe some anti-French sentiment, or maybe anti-peace movement in general, maybe... (although i would still think you'd have better things to do, better reasons to be happy than that Chirac or some 'hippie' was proved wrong, if you think he was) But the Human shields? come on, that is ridiculous. Clearly some reporter or militairy 'intelligence' person came up with that one.
if I was brave enough I'd take a plan to the region get myself in to Baghdad or Bashra and to see if with a few $'s i can start a 'tigger for Iraq' movement.

if there's anything less reliable than the mainstream media, it's the BS posted here with no backup to prove that the pictures are what you say they are, or anything else for that matter. I don't think so.

->skeptic

Doctored photos? Be serious. The small size of the crowd is obvious even from the CNN photos. I was not aware the "event" took place across from the Palestine Hotel. Given that, it's all too obvious what happened. The reporters set up shop to film something as close as possible to the hotel (I was watching at 8am CDT and it was pretty damn tedious) rather than hump all their equipment to somewhere where actual news was happening.

What a bunch of pathetic liberal wankers.

You people amaze me with your brilliant conspiracy theories.

You people deserve a medal for stupidity.

The media's like any other big company selling a product. They have to cater to the preferences of the consumer to get the most market share. The majority of US citizens want to hear good news about this war because they know deep down that all "preemptive" military action is simply motivated aggression (more about the motive below). How much market share do you think a TV station's going to get when it casts doubt on the war? It'll be labelled "leftist" or "unpatriotic" or whatever, and worse - it'll be cut off from the controlled leak system that provides them with most of their "inside" info (seriously, has anyone ever been punished for leaking government info to the media?). Randolph Hearst said it best (and he should know) - "All news is something that someone is trying to hide, the rest is advertising."

Anyone repeating the spin about regime change and Saddam being evil has to admit that if that's honestly the real deal then we'll be engaged for a few decades removing all the evil regimes. God help us when it comes time to attack the ones with nukes. The fact that Saddam's a prick and deserves what he's getting is a fortunate coincidence. Remeber there was a time when he was our prick. His real mistake was biting the hand that fed him. Let's be honest with ourselves and start dealing with the reality. Control Iraq and you control 25% of the oil. Europe and Japan misbehave? Lower the supply. Middle East misbehaves? Raise the supply. Simple realpolitik and exactly the way to do it to ensure US dominance of the world. The trick is to remember to conduct the follow-up PR campaign to placate everyone we pissed off. No point having an empire if the serfs go on strike. And don't be dull and think of empire in old fashioned Roman or English terms. The US empire is a lot more subtle.... and a lot more dangerous. It's the only one in history so far with the power to take everyone with it when it falls.

The picture is broadly consistent with remarks about the size of the crowd made by a BBC reporter who was on the spot at the time.

The Iraqi flag produced after the stars and stripes appears to have been carefully selected. It was not the current flag, but the pre-1991 design. Shortly before the 1991 Gulf war, Saddam Hussein had the words Allahu Akbar (God is greatest) inserted between the stars, and these were missing from the flag used on Wednesday.

(so it was not as "spontaneous" as they want people think it was)

Note: "Madness": excelent sitrep. Bright and accurate analysis.

Sorry folks, but if you take a look, the statue is already off the pedastal. The red/blue lighting also suggests that this was taken in the evening. The tank is there, so it can't be the very beginning. Yet, there's no crane, so it can't be just after the statue was toppled.

Funny how those who can find intricate conspiracies in everything can't even make third-grade what's-in-the-picture observations.

I'm not surprised that this "event" would be staged. Anyone remember the "spontaneous" protests in Florida that essentially sought to intimidate people working to fulfill the obligations of law in counting voites? Turned out they were ALL GOP STAFFERS, paid to come down from DC and all over the coutnry to riot in Dade and Broward counties.

In other words, we've seen this type of thing from the Bushites before, and people with a memory for such abhorent practices are certainly not surprised by this little prank.

If this staged media event helped bring the sensless killing here to a quicker close, and saved the life of one poor Iraqi child or young American soldier, or prevented one from being maimed by "friendly" fire, then it was worth it.
Nothing, NOTHING, this administration says can be trusted, and that is the one consistent track record it has compiled.
Rather than just Clinton-era spots on a blue dress, this right-wing theocracy of an administration has soiled and despoiled our flag, our Constitution and our freedom with blatent, unrelenting lies and misinformation, in domestic and foreign policy.
The dry-cleaning bill is going to be bodacious.

Why is this human shield censored out of the above pictures? Chomsky is right, the media (including Indymedia) lies all the time!

> one of my young neighbors died so Iraq could be free and 9/11 won't be repeated.

your young neighbor unfortunately got wrong orders. No link between Iraq and 9/11 has ever been found. All of the hijackers were in fact Saudi Arabian. Perhaps your friend should have invaded them instead.

Peter, I taped the event in case you'd like to look at something other than a poor quality photo. So waht if the intention of that units mission was to go and pull the statue over, does that really change anything. Why can't you guys be glad that one of the worst butchers of our time is out of power? There are repeated scenes all over the country of Iraq of statues and images of Saddam being torn down and defaced. Do you have a conspiracy theory for all of those accounts as well? Has your hatred for George Bush blinded you so badly that you can't see that there is now hope in Iraq?

Surely, since the scene depicted above was across from a hotel full of journalists (this was before the U.S. murdered two journalists by firing a shell into the hotel), there must have been very many photos of the event.

Will those who claim that the photo here is not reperesentative of the situation when the statue was pulled down please post a photo of the square at the time showing a significantly larger crowd.

By the way, since it it is generaly agreed that Saddam was hated by millions of Iraqis, the fact that so few can be seen celebrating his downfall probably means that they have no more love for their Anglo-American "liberators" than they had for Mr. Hussein. Of course, that's hardly suprising, since they know that:

1) Saddam and his Baath predecessors were strongly supported and aided by the U.S. and Britain -- especially in suppressing the Iraqi left -- for almost three decades;

2) the U.S. killed tens of thousands of Iraqi conscripts fleeing Kuwait at the end of the 1991 war -- conscripts who were in rebellion and might well have overthrown Saddam at the time;

3) the combination of the bombing of essential facilities like sewage treatment and water purification plants with a 12-year embargo that denied Iraq both the means to repair and operate such plants and the medicines that would have mitigated the effects of contaminated water killed over one million Iraqis, over half of them children under 5;

3.5) Some substantial portion of the above-mentioned deaths were caused by the massive use of "depleted" uranium weapons by the Americans in the 1991 war. The ongoing death caused by said uranium will be augmented by the perhaps larger amount of uranium used in the current invasion.

By the way, Iraqis can be pretty sure that -- under Anglo-American domination -- they won't have free health care and free higher education -- things they had before the 1991 war and subsequent embargo.

What kind of crowd were you expecting in the area? This town was/is a war zone and most civilians with any sense don't go chasing tanks to see if they are going out for a picnic lunch. Have you even considered that this statue was in a part of time where Saddam's loyalist lived and that most of them had fled? Just look on a map, that statue was just across the river from one of his palaces and the Baath party HQ. Just listen to what the journalists are saying now that their minders are gone.

dirty d - and all - do you have SCI, TS, S clearance? No?

...then guess what...you don't know shit. What you have are opinions based on pure emotion, a few half-digested Noam Chomsky books, and very little substance.

And to the squeaky little brat who made the joke about Conservatives needing a dictionary to comprehend the word "diatribe" - Suck my All-American choad, you sanctimonious bastard. Take your "Bush is Hitler" foolishness and shove it up your flag-burning ass.

Newsflash - the bums lost. Get a JOB, sir!

You're a genius... not!

Been around through the 60's..voted Kennedy, George Sr. was ok, voted Clinton..am far from a an uninformed individual, however, this toad, George Bush is as close to Adolf Hitler as has ever been paralleled in our times! What next, Syria, Iran to name a few..just to control the oil leases of the world! What about our starving USA citizens? Homeless, uneducated, drug and gang problems?? Where do we have the funds to educate our own children, feed our needy, help the aged, when the Bush gang has eraticated the possibility of survival for the Iraqui people? A people of 50% children. This is a terrible time to live in and a tradgedy to our society.

No one's there. Where oh where could they be??? Maybe they are dragging the head of the statue around town. Maybe they're off to loot the information ministry.

Just a suggestion, but maybe you shouldn't base conclusions of "what happened" on a SNAPSHOT and someone else's opinion.

Do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

Maybe this picture is actually showing us that hours after the statue got pulled down, there are STILL a few hundred people there.

haha, it just makes me laugh. Until we butchered the Iraqis in the early nineties, they had a higher literacy rate and better health service than the US!

Regardless, I'm saddened by a lot of the posts on here from either side of the argument. At work I have an entirely opposite stance to a colleague although we are both able to respect each others opinions and not let the argument degrade into petty name-calling contests.

Some of you guys are just seeing what you want to see, just like the extreme right. People like you guys take away from the credibility of Liberal Intellectuals. Sad.


sportsmed.starwave.com/media/nba/2002/1026/photo/a_divac_i.jpg
thisbighush.com/bust.jpg
news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/295000/images/_297585_billy_joel_ap150.jpg
i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0122690/fcstil_1018-1.jpg
www.arabnews.com/warimages/412528.jpg

The amercans will eat their lead once the real world, not with fake news conrporations that report boolshit and create day shows to picture the iraq information minister in such lowly position, unites against the opressors!

I am tired to watch them raid round the world, they are afraid to fight like men they bomb civilians and villages and their people think its appropriate, well if thats an idea of americans and bush they will not live long, i really hope russias new weapon can be brought to action to change the angle of earch so the entire continent is under water..!!

Looking at it objectively the picture is meaningless - who knows when it was taken, it is too dark and out of focus to be of any real use. That said, even on the video and pictures offered as evidence that the picture is faked it really doesn't look like there are very many people there - no more than a few hundred in the entire square and all those side streets in a city of 5 million! Not a very big showing and hardly anything like the fall of the Berlin wall - more like one of the pathetic pro-war demonstrations tha the media hype. So they are both fake - the picture and the hype made out of the event. Does anyone really doubt that there is no free media in the USA? All governments lie, all militaries lie, only the last few years it seems all media lie too - American media being the worst offenders. Most Americans support this war because they believe that Iraq was behind 9/11, "believe" being the key word here because no US intelligence or government agencies have ever said so and surely they would say so if they had a shred of proof as such a thing would be suck a potent and persuassive reason to have had the war! Bush, who cannot open his mouth without lying or saying something stupid or something incomprehensible implied that Iraq and 9/11 and Al Queda are linked, no one else, but apparently that is enough reason for half the country to believe it.

One more thing, talking about idiot Americans and how their brains no longer function - there is a belief out that :

Being a true American = Supporting Bush = Supporting the war = Supporting the troops. You either believe all statements are true or false. Well take a moment numb nut rigth wingers and realize that any combiantion of these statements can be true of false.

God damn George Bush and his fascist regime to hell - how long can this bullshit go on? These bastards do more in a single day than Nixon did in his entire political career that is dirty and against the constitution and against sanity and against American values and he was forced to resign?

One last thing - Republicans forced the spendign of 40 million dollars to chase Clintons penis around and another 70 million on Whitewater, from which no charges were ever laid YET - on 9/11, 3000 Americans were murdered in one of the most bizarre and incomprehensible crimes in all history and there has still not been an investigation???? Can any one explain why Bush isn't dragged out of the Whitehouse and kicked to death by an justly enraged populace?

We won't even get in to his disastrous domestic policies. My god that the world took this awful turn - and it isn't Ossama's fault - it is Bush's.

To all of you who want to believe the propaganda that the Iraquis love us and see us as liberators, please, please, please, hop on the next flight to Baghdad so you can meet some real Iraquis face to face so they can personally thank you for liberating them.

And for all of you who implicitly trust the government: Where were the secret service men who constantly guard the president when he (Klinton) was getting a hummer? I'm sure they "knew a lot more than we do" too.

Things that make you go "Hmmmm..."

On Friday a correspondent on L.A.'s KPFK 90.7 stated that on Thursday and Friday the Iraqi people were allowed to continue looting all over Baghdad, including medical supplies from hospitals and clinics. The Ministry of Health [sic?] was looted, and there were no tanks or U.S. forces guarding it from being trashed. However, over at the Ministry of Oil building, our brave U.S. forces, soldiers and tanks were on 24-hour guard to protect it from looting and destruction. Hmmmm.

What does it tell you when medical storehouses are being looted, and emergency supplies are held up with no way to get to the wounded & dying Iraqi people, but our much-needed military guard are cooling their heels guarding Baghdad's oil administation buildings? Who gave those orders? What does it tell you when the very first U.S. casualty of this invasion was a young Marine who died protecting an oil pumping station? What does it tell you when the very first areas to be "secured" before this invasion even began were Iraq's oilfields - which were later set afire anyway? What about those Gulf War veterans who have come forward at great risk recently to tell how THEY were the ones who set the oil fires in the first Gulf War under orders, which were blamed on Saddam's reign of madness and burned for over a year, affecting the world's climate? [see recent interviews at
Pacifica Archives with Gulf War nurse / researcher Joyce Riley RN, BSN]

What's this invasion and occupation all about, anyway? OIL - Operation Iraqi Lubrication!

Liberation - or occupation? Are our troops coming home yet? Are the Iraqi people free? When can they vote for their own chosen leaders? When can WE? How do you free a country with an invasion & military occupation - for years, according to Pentagon estimates? The U.S. is "installing" the new interim ruler in Iraq; how do you "install" a democracy? If the U.S. wanted to install a new president, why not just send over the U.S. Supreme Court, instead of all these soldiers and bombs? It sure worked in Florida 2000. Think of all the lives and $$$ we could have saved!

Also interesting how Bush & Blair broadcast their compassionate messages to the Iraqi people on Iraqi TV - to people in a country with no power and no TVs to watch them on!! Perhaps these messages were really aimed at US, not them? Propaganda is alive and well!

I asked this rabid right-wing nut at the dog park where Iraqis had suddenly gotten all those pro-Bush posters and flags we saw, which would have been outlawed by death under Saddam. He didn't know, but later revealingly said that the way Iraq's evil regime always staged their pro-Saddam rallies was to seal off all the streets around the rally site, bring their Republican tanks and soldiers in, call up the state-run media, and then bus in plainclothes troops, guards and supporters to create a pro-Saddam rally crowd for the cameras complete with gasoline-soaked American flags ready to torch - always within easy reach for the media.

Sounds like a plan! Sounds like the Bush Regime cribbed some of Saddam's own tactics in staging this "historic" farce. But then, Bush always had to lie, cheat and steal to get ahead. Ask his fellow classmates at Yale: why study when you can steal?

Mr. right-wing nut also fervently stated that the U.S. of A. is not like them commies in Russia , or the Nazis - who would spread propaganda and lies, invade another country, murder its people, steal their wealth / natural resources and then split without cleaning up the mess. Yeah - right!!!

Tell that to the "liberated" people in Afghanistan, Rwanda, Somalia, Panama, El Salvador, Central America, Viet Nam, Korea - that is, the ones still alive after we rolled over their countries and stole everything. Word to the people of Iraq: WE OWN YOUR ASS! Amerika Uber Alles!!

Randy Herr
®

Would someone please post pics of the SF demonstrations or the March on Washington DC (I am technically inept) ..... and/or even go back in history to the fall of the Berlin Wall.....THAT is what hordes of committed/compassionate people look like!!!!! Look and see with your own eyes, and if you refuse to see the truth, then you might as well gouge your own eyes out because they are utterly useless.

Remember, that all of those demonstrators all over the world....they KNOW what it feels like to be in such a mass of humanity.....they all are people - millions of people - who look at these pathetic pictures - even the BEST of them - and know enough to laugh.

Even if a 10 thousand people appeared, it's still nothing. Baghdad has more than 4 million in population. If this really reminds you of the fall of the Berlin Wall then you are truly a dumbass. If you think, in a given country, 100% of the people adore their leader then you're a dumbass as well. You'd think hundreds of thousands of people would show up to witness the destruction of the statue of a terribly bad dictator, especially after the threat--the dictator himself--has been eliminated, but no. Ironically, way more people in the US, protest the actions of a leader who's out of control--Bush.

Don't forget that Ahmed Chalabi (from the Iraqi Opposition, who will soon be assassinated, I think) brought with him about 800 soldiers (aka freedom fighters) who weren't even properly armed. They could've easily been used to stage an event like that. That imagery alone caused anger and frustration within the Arab world, which means it worked as a psychological depressor. Note that all people in countries bordering Iraq saw no threat at all, even Kuwaitis didn't. Not Iran... not even Turkey. Except for motherfuckin' Israel, of course, which is reason #2 for this war.

"Except for motherfuckin' Israel, of course, which is reason #2 for this war"

That's just a LOVELY comment.

Nazi much?

Those snapshots were taken from
www.webcamsue.demon.nl/bagdad1.html.

I started taking screen captures at around 0800 cst on the 9th.

The pictures span from 0800 to 0922.

From the wide shot you can see the blockade of the area being conducted (

They just waited for the "liberated" iraqis to come him and for the photographs, to set-up their equipments.

pics

1- set-up (0803)
2- the M88 moves in and sit there for around 30 minutes
(prior to that photo, three "iraqis" climbed on the statue, with "their" fat rope, ladder, shoes and sledgehammer and stayed on top for another 30minutes)(0917)
3- US flag up (0928)
4- US flag down (0930)
5- Iraq flag kinda up (0934)

So much media crap.
Diane Sawyer was so hapy for them.
"It's like the fall of the Berlin wall"

Sick

Those snapshots were taken from
www.webcamsue.demon.nl/bagdad1.html.

I started taking screen captures at around 0800 cst on the 9th.

The pictures span from 0800 to 0922.

From the wide shot you can see the blockade of the area being conducted (

They just waited for the "liberated" iraqis to come him and for the photographs, to set-up their equipments.

pics

1- set-up (0803)
2- the M88 moves in and sit there for around 30 minutes
(prior to that photo, three "iraqis" climbed on the statue, with "their" fat rope, ladder, shoes and sledgehammer and stayed on top for another 30minutes)(0917)
3- US flag up (0928)
4- US flag down (0930)
5- Iraq flag kinda up (0934)

So much media crap.
Diane Sawyer was so hapy for them.
"It's like the fall of the Berlin wall"

Sick

Those snapshots were taken from
www.webcamsue.demon.nl/bagdad1.html.

I started taking screen captures at around 0800 cst on the 9th.

The pictures span from 0800 to 0922.

From the wide shot you can see the blockade of the area being conducted (

They just waited for the "liberated" iraqis to come him and for the photographs, to set-up their equipments.

pics

1- set-up (0803)
2- the M88 moves in and sit there for around 30 minutes
(prior to that photo, three "iraqis" climbed on the statue, with "their" fat rope, ladder, shoes and sledgehammer and stayed on top for another 30minutes)(0917)
3- US flag up (0928)
4- US flag down (0930)
5- Iraq flag kinda up (0934)

So much media crap.
Diane Sawyer was so hapy for them.
"It's like the fall of the Berlin wall"

Sick

Those snapshots were taken from
www.webcamsue.demon.nl/bagdad1.html.

I started taking screen captures at around 0800 cst on the 9th.

The pictures span from 0800 to 0922.

From the wide shot you can see the blockade of the area being conducted (

They just waited for the "liberated" iraqis to come him and for the photographs, to set-up their equipments.

pics

1- set-up (0803)
2- the M88 moves in and sit there for around 30 minutes
(prior to that photo, three "iraqis" climbed on the statue, with "their" fat rope, ladder, shoes and sledgehammer and stayed on top for another 30minutes)(0917)
3- US flag up (0928)
4- US flag down (0930)
5- Iraq flag kinda up (0934)

So much media crap.
Diane Sawyer was so hapy for them.
"It's like the fall of the Berlin wall"

Sick

Those snapshots were taken from
www.webcamsue.demon.nl/bagdad1.html.

I started taking screen captures at around 0800 cst on the 9th.

The pictures span from 0800 to 0922.

From the wide shot you can see the blockade of the area being conducted (

They just waited for the "liberated" iraqis to come him and for the photographs, to set-up their equipments.

pics

1- set-up (0803)
2- the M88 moves in and sit there for around 30 minutes
(prior to that photo, three "iraqis" climbed on the statue, with "their" fat rope, ladder, shoes and sledgehammer and stayed on top for another 30minutes)(0917)
3- US flag up (0928)
4- US flag down (0930)
5- Iraq flag kinda up (0934)

So much media crap.
Diane Sawyer was so hapy for them.
"It's like the fall of the Berlin wall"

Sick

I must reiterate some of the prior postings and say that resorting to name calling and general disrespectfulness leands to the erosion of most Americans' faith in their OWN democracy and especially any faith in the current (American) regime's philosophy.

Public forums like these should be used for more productive means. We are all entitled to our own beliefs, but let's exchange instead of exclude ourselves from any form of critical inquiry. Bashing serves no productive ends.

What we (as a democracy) should be considering from this site should be the altenative viewpoint it is privileging us to have inour own living rooms, offices, studies, etc. It represents democracy at its finest.

Those of you who denounce it under the guise of "nationalism" or some other spoon-fed form of "informative" media (i.e., corporate news moguls), ought to be considering it as another potential side of the story.

I urge all who are reading this to seek out your own information (including, but not limited to, this site) and formulate your own opinions about what global economics mean to this confrontation and what democracy means to you -- personally -- if you have been quick to condemn the information included on this site.

Consider whose opinions included here are more critical and informative; read, learn, grow, educate with compassion.

Don't denounce based on patriotic fervor from your presumed and presupposed political "position".

"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are already dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in Revolution." - George Jackson

Thank you for taking the time to learn.
C.M. Grey

I see 100-150 people on this picture.

Ms. Grey's advice is sound, but how can we expect intelligent, even-headed conversation when many people's rolemodels for "political discourse" are Bill O'Reilly and that idiot on "Hardball?" When what passes for political debate on American TV consists of some guy screaming at anyone who disagrees with him, where does that leave us?

BTW, If you want to see real, unbiased journalism in regards to this war, you really should watch CSPAN and PBS. It's amazing that just about the only unbiased television media these days are the ones actually administered by governmental agencies! CSPAN not only gives us a glimpse of the floors of Congress, but it also broadcasts internation news in translation. You can see a wide range of views, from a wide range of sources -- everything from American to Canadian to French to Lebanese (which mostly consisted of Iraqis asking why the Americans were encouraging the looters to rob the banks). And check out "The News Hour with Jim Lehrer." Finally some impartial journalism. Each show closes with an even-handed, respectful (ie. no screaming or name-calling) debate between a neo-con and liberal democrat pundit. It's actually refreshing. And when they show images of the slain US soldiers, they don't editorialize, or blast the Battle Hymn of the Republic, or have waving flags in the background. They do it in respectful silence.

I'd like to see Fox News be so... ethical.

I was wondering if the person who posted the original piece or maybe the person who posted the webcam shots would comment on the NOW (what seems to be) a highly dishonest post.
It seems they were guilty of making the numbers look smaller when it is clearly missing many people.

ABC on Dateline also just did a story they agreed that much of the media seemed to show MORE Iraqis by zooming in.

At Indymedia it is understandable that people are trying to underplay the numbers instead of overplay them.

Another website that fell victim to the original webcam piece was www.nion.us/

Anyway what do you have to say for yourselves?

Surely no-one who has been watching both the lead up into this war and the war coverage on American TV since, will be surpised by yet another attempt to fool the public at home with propaganda lies. News covergage on CBC radio in Canda mentioned throughout that day, that this was only a small crowd, but TV images closed in on this small group without scanning the wider area, and so the picture we were left with, was that of a substantial uprising.
Shame on all Western mass media, who consistently have deliberately underestimeated the large numbers of anti-war demonstrations throughout the world, while using the same 'close-up' deception technique to portray tiny pro-war demonstrations -even here in Canada- as big public gatherings in favour of fighting this war.
We are most certainly being told lies, and because they are being told repeatedly and by all the major networks, the general public is being hoodwinked daily.
More accurate assessments are available late at night in some critical discussion forums, on some radio interviews and of course on alternative websites, but the mass decption by the mass media of the mass of the people continues unabated.
Regards,
Ekkehard Irion

"was wondering if the person who posted the original piece or maybe the person who posted the webcam shots would comment on the NOW (what seems to be) a highly dishonest post. It seems they were guilty of making the numbers look smaller when it is clearly missing many people."

I just examined all of the photos on this website (the only way to come to any kind of conclusion). It would appear the person who posted the conglomerate of pictures was perhaps not thinking in perspective (I mean about the pictures, silly! guess freudian slips even come out in writing).

I strained my estrogen-damaged three-dimensional thought processes, and tried as hard as I could to find the "missing people". I used each picture to identify the buildings the people were supposed to be in front of. By an arial shot, you can see these buildings are relatively far away from each other compared to the small itty bitty people, with room for a lot of crowd in between. All I could see in the ground shots was the first couple of rows of people, and then a small blur where I could make out maybe 3-10 rows of people. Also, when I looked at the pictures from close in around the statue and calcuated the line of sight between the statue and the building behind it. Nobody was missing that couldn't be accounted for otherwise.

The guy would have had to have been much more sophisticated in Paint than his illustrations indicated to have erased the people without there being obvious places where it was done in all photos.

If you need a lesson on how photo perspective affects the way crowds look, take a look at some of the protest pics. There are several pictures of the "protest pens" from the air by media, and then pictures from within the pens. From within the crowd, on the ground, it could conceivably look like one was in a crowd of millions.

Regardless of if it was a publicity stunt or not, one torn down statue does not a democracy make. We still have a long, hard, bloody road ahead, and until the bombs stop falling we have not ended the threat to the babes that bear no stain of guilt for 9/11.

Crystal

ok, those of you who think this is all about oil raise your hands, now all of you turn you computer off and send it in for recycling, include any plastic chairs your using, dont even think of driving to the recycling center, just think of all the plastic bits and bobs in your car - not to mention all that oil your burning, dont bother turning on the tv or radio [tut-tut thats plastic too isnt it?], in fact you should be recycling those, so carry them off to get them recycled as well.

i might be nice enough to let you use electricity if its nuclear or clean [if you live in the uk and use npower you can ask to be switched to juice
www.greenpeace.org.uk/contentlookup.cfm ], however i dont like those plastic light switches, so your going to have to play with the wires till you get some proper ones without any plastic in them.

now get out in the garden, grab a hoe and start planting, if your not concerned about oil then please complain to your pet pigs [yep you better get some asap] who i'm sure will give more of a damn than i do.

like it or not we need oil to survive in the way that we do, until we ween ourselves off its dependancy you need to be a little more realistic, and remember we are not just TAKING it from them, we pay for it.

now i'm off to throw another few pounds to the iraqi people any my government because unlike some of you i live in the real world and accept that.

Listen to yourself! You say that you live in the 'real' world, and yet you say that because we rely on all these objects and services that use oil, that we have a right to steal it? Personally I don't believe even GWB is greedy enough to have waged this invasion for oil alone. But to condone that posibility because we use so much oil in the 21st century is disturbing. Iraq doesn't control the world's oil anyway, just a fraction of it.

If the powers-that-be cared so much about liberating Iraq they could have done so at any time over the last THIRTY years, but no. If they cared so much about human rights, they would have put an end to the attrocities in Israel or Saudi Arabi, but they are allies so they don't.

The excuse of liberation was for the people of the West to back their government's involvement.
The fear of an oil monopoly fuels the radicalist conspiracy views.
I believe the real reason this war came about was because Bush used the US's pent up anger over 9/11 to remove an old enemy, and what Bush considers to be a threat to the West. I also believe that that was an unequivicably moronic move since the best form of defence isn't to kill your enemies and surround yourself with Star Wars defences. No the best form of defence is to make your enemies love you by actually trying to do some good.

Kill em with kindness - is that it George?

"like it or not we need oil to survive in the way that we do, until we ween ourselves off its dependancy you need to be a little more realistic, and remember we are not just TAKING it from them, we pay for it."

that's great - we bomb them, take the oil to "protect it" and then tell them how much we'd like to pay for it. And most importantly - in what currency:

www.rferl.org/nca/features/2000/11/01112000160846.asp

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1554.htm

www.mayanmajix.com/art049.html

globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO303B.html

etc. etc.

so you're right in a sense - the "west" needs cheap oil to survive - if by survive you mean maintain an artificial, unsustainable mass-consumption lifestyle of SUVs and endless suburbs. and let our children and grandchildren deal with the mess - fuck em!

USA! NUMBER ONE!

Someone wrote...

"The guy would have had to have been much more sophisticated in Paint than his illustrations indicated to have erased the people without there being obvious places where it was done in all photos."

I wrote the earlier question that you are answering.

I'm sure no one was erased. It is the time of the photo that is in question. Certainly it seems there would have to be more people in that blue circled area, if in fact the original photo was taken closer to around the time of the statue falling. The original vacant photo has no people in those locations. Yet clearly we see many people in the other pictures. To me it seems there is some dishonesty on when the photo was taken.

The U.S. Bush regime is the scariest regime and the true war criminals. When will justice come to us? When will the day arrive that U.S. citizens awaken and realize they have been played for fools and that all that they've come to know as truth were just a pack of lies?

Don´t believe everything you see or hear in the american brainwashed Zionist media. If you do, you will become a lemming. I agree on the motherfuckin´ Israel. And no one can call me a Nazy for that quote. Because condemnation on the Israeli terror state is not anti-semitism. It´s anti-zionism. The war in Iraq, the liberation, is illegal by all means and that's why i do not support it. Don´t be a lemming. The real threat to the world is the crackpot Ariel ,,the butcher'' Sharon. He has killed more people than Saddam Hussein. Let´s never forget that. When will the Palestinians be liberated?

"like it or not we need oil to survive in the way that we do"

i don't know what it's like where you live, but in my town we could go to a gas station and buy oil products prior to march 19th. if it was about oil, then there was really no reason to destroy iraqi cities and citizens to get it.

up to march 19th iraq was still producing 2 million barrels of oil per day. they weren't just pouring that oil back into the sand, but were selling it into the world market, and about 45% of it was going to the US. so, to repeat, if it was about oil, then there was really no reason to destroy iraqi cities and citizens to get it.

my point is that if it was about oil, it wasn't about SUPPLY of oil. it was about CONTROL of oil.

now that's a whole different conversation, isn't it?

Note how the "coalition" forces have moved rapidly and efficiently from the beginning to secure the oil fields and equipment, yet are not able to secure the Iraqi citizenry from looting, fighting, a lack of food, water & electricity to say nothing of providing assistance at the hospitals completely inundated with civilian casualties.

To suggest that this is only about oil is shortsighted but to say it has to do with WMD, a direct and immediate threat to the free world from Saddam or liberating the Iraqis in any true and lasting sense is to be completely and shamefully naive and intellectually lazy.

This is all about imperialism and establishing US (read corporate) domination of the world. This "war" was planned for years and is clearly part of a larger effort to concentrate wealth and the control of resources for large corporations. The truth of this is self-evident - all you have to do is follow the money trail.

The undeniable fact that there is massive propaganda promulgated in the name of news, particularly in the US and the UK, is simply a factor of who controls the media, what sells copy and what message supports the effort.

And, those of you who support Bush and this self acknowledged right-wing cabal please spare us the threatening, vulgar, macho diatribes. Good grief! Are you serious about your positions for those of us who disagree - attack, persecute, jail, torture, kill. I mean this is precisely what we are, allegedly, fighting against. Freedom only counts if you can exercise it - DUH!

There are legitimate arguments for every side, when one relies on threats and profanity you lose all legitimacy. These threatening and repressive sentiments so vociferously put forth are precisely what gets others talking about the similarities between Bush and the Nazis.

Finally, I find it ironic as an atheist that the world is poised on the brink of WWIII as a direct result of small minded, bigots from all sides who want nothing more than a chance to show who's god has a bigger dick. If there is a god then penis comparisons are nonsensical because god is undoubtably a woman.

Unclench and exhale, make love not war.

Regards,

Doug

The post about Sharon killing more people than Saddam is laughable. Does that include the "thousands of innocent people" killed at Jenin? An old school socialist or liberal would have celebrated the end of Saddam. So, what are you then?

Just like Nazis to say that everyone else is the facist, the oppressor...pay no attention to the paranoid behind the curtain.

Bush, Blair, and the Jews are all equated with National Socialism, and you creeps are off the hook - even though your highminded collectivist ideals, tone of moral superiority, condescending attitudes toward anyone not goose-stepping to your leftie agenda, and your pathological hatered of Israel are straight out of the Gestapo-for-beginers playbook.

I'll tell you what, I'll post this without running it through spell-check, that way if I have a typo or two in the text, you can point it out with glee, as proof that your political foes are all semi-retarded cavemen, brainwashed by the Bushite-Zionist war machine media. Whew!

My eyes are open. Are yours?

Funny that you would say anyone who opposed the nazi's was labelled a fascist. In reality the nazi's were rather found of calling people communists.

You guys do that a lot to though don't ya?

Also funny, the nazi's went and conducted fullscale preemptive aggression on a international level.

Who's doing that now? The peace protestors? The war mongers?

Hmm... I think you should perhaps take a closer look at your chosen side's agenda before you start calling people nazi's. Perhaps closer scrutiny would help out, here:

www.newamericancentury.org

I encourage you to first go to the statement of principles to see who all has signed their name to this policy of tyranny (hint, its almost everyone in bush's cabinet, and bush's brother), and then read one of thier documents titled 'rebuilding americas defenses'.

I'm sure you've heard of it. Maybe you're familiar with it, maybe you encourage its agenda... But have you read the page labeled '51'? (actually 63 in a pdf viewer). Tip, search for the phrase 'pearl harbor' and then consider that this was written in sept of 2000. Bush is not right in the head. This plan is stupid and will most likely destroy us all, and huge portions of the populace at the same time. You need to reconsider your stance on these matters for the good of the nation.

So the Hessian thinks my claim that Ariel ,,the butcher'' Saron is worse than Saddam Hussein is lughable? Well, i can say that this crackpot Ariel is worse than Saddam. You say i am not glad that Saddam is gone? That´s laughable. The Iraqis did not want to be liberated like this. And about the Zionists. If any American knew what kind of control these bastards have on the media in the US people would rise up in arms. And i ask: where are the WMD? They haven´t been found. Have they? Why did Bush go to this war anyway? Was it to protect the US? No. It was to help the Zionists seek domination in the region. To protect the terror state Israel. That's a fact. Don´t be a lemming.

Heck, I didn't know Billy Joel was playing Baghdad.

While I do accept that the pictures include a man that looks very similar in each photo; let's seriously consider one point that you are apparently basing a serious allegation on.

In one picture you show 3/4 of a man's head with his eyes closed showing no emotion. You are comparing this to a picture of a guy who is obviously very emotional. Face contorted, mouth open, eyes squinting. Hairline--very similar, mustache--maybe, eyebrows--possible, nose--questionable, ears--can't tell, watch on his left hand--uh never mind.....

Here comes the sarcasm....

I accept that Iraq is melting pot of many different nationalities, races and religions and few characteristics are likely to be the same amongst two different citizens of that country. What, with all the different combinations of hair color, eye color, skin tone, and ethnic diversity in Iraq, it is quite obvious that this must absolutely positively be the same guy.

Knowing that two individuals in Iraq bearing the same resemblance is highly unlikely, compounded with the fact that Saddam already has numerous body doubles for himself, leads me to believe that it would be highly implausible for this to happen twice. Kind of like hitting the Lotto with the gold ball two days in a row.

Peter, I am now lumping you in with the wackos that insist we never landed on the moon either.

Time to but stock in tinfoil! You guys are nuts!

Watch out...the Zionists are gonna get you! Woooooooooo....

They control everything! Bush knew! Free Mumia! Legalize stupidity....uh, I mean pot!

I mean, gee-zus, see a shrink already!

I don´t know what´s wrong with you. Maybe you´re just brainwashed. Why don´t you check out the website newamericancentury.org If the Zionists would not have the control over America that i say they have, why haven´t the Palestinians been liberated? Why have the Americans always taken Israel´s stand but not the Palestinian stand? Why is it that the American government attacks Iraq on the terms that the Iraqis have violated the will of the UN but does not care to threat the state of Israel with the same terms? Israel has violated 70 UN resolutions since 1948. The Iraqis have violated 17 UN resolutions since 1990. I ask again, where are the WMD? They haven´t been found. I said it once, i said it twice, and i´ll say it ones again: Don´t be a got damn lemming. It only boggles your mind.

This site is hilarious! I love the sarcasm and attempts at being super serious. Whoops, you guys are serious. Oh well, I guess paranoids and idiots need a place to make their stupid ideas seem normal.

Watch out for those black helicopters.

Oh, we didn’t land on the moon either, so here is a sight that will get you and your three friends excited: hightechbiz.com/pub/moonlanding.html

Get your hand lotion out and go at it!

You lost…the war worked.

Speak softly and carry a big stick. Get your hand off your stick and get some education.

Now you have so called liberated us from Saddam, it's now time for US and British troops to leave Iraq at once, the US govenment will be rewareded if they played the game right and left the Iraqi people to take control of thier country ASAP, otherwise the invaders will lose it all, the oil, the investments, the rebuilding, the US Government maybe able to take as much as they can from the Iraqi oil for time being, but once the Iraqi people rise up, the US Government will lose it all.

Also 27 Million Iraqi inside Iraq and over 6 Million Iraqi outside Iraq will never forget with the Kuwaties did to Iraq, at first I had a doubt that what Iraq did in 1990 was wrong, but after I saw what the Kuwaiti leaders (the one who got hired as agents by the US), and the Kuwaties did, I changed my mind. I also have feeling Millions of decent humans started to feel the same way as I do all of over the world, I want the Kuwaties just to wait, watch and see, by the will of God mighty In-Sha-Allah once we finish with your invaders, you will see what will happen to your so called Kuwait, your Leaders now started to play with fire allot bigger then a tiny teny weny country like Kuwait can handle, now I started to belive more then ever that Kuwait is our Iraqi territory that was taken away from us (from Iraq), because of the Kuwauti your evil hates against us Iraqies, our contery now is distoryed, but we will rebuild it and liberated by the will og God Mighty In-Sha-Allah, one we will do that we will come after you sooner or later, your so called man made country will soon going to be reunited with Iraq once againe but this time for good, In-Sha-Allah this day is coming very soon.

DREAM ON MY FRIEND , Dreams r good , and thats the only thing we arabs r good at , Dreaming , ..... and talking , talking about things that r bigger than ure size...

The media, like truth, is victim of this war. It's lost its credibiity like never before. That's sad. It was obvious that the statue toppling was a staged event.

Great post. I love these conspiracy theory wacko liberal message boards. I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the black helicopters. I have to be honest though, I figured it would be on a serious note and not sarcasm.

You know guys, Syria is next, then probably Iran, then we'll throw darts at a map of the middle east to see where we go next. (I'm really not serious, but I figure it will get most of you ranting for a day or so)

Thanks for coming out!

After reading a fair amount of this, I have to say I'm pretty disturbed by most of it... From both sides. Being extreme in either direction is probably going to lead to wrong conclusions. I'm really trying not to swing too far in either direction, but I do try to figure out what the people on the other side are thinking, because simple jealousy does not explain the breed of hatred that drives people to fly airliners into buildings. I love America, but there are some words being used to describe us lately that I don't think fit very well. Innocent? I'm afraid not. Enlightened? Ahem... No. Deep down, we all know that war is the most horrible thing. Period. And we do it anyway. Right or wrong, nothing enlightened there.

The American way of life is fantastic for us. We were born and raised in it. Capitalism is the norm. Greed is encouraged and most of us gladly participate. Bribing politicians is legal (corporations don't give them millions for nothing, friends). But, since we're doing so well, and life is extremely easy (on a global scale) and well entertained, we're quick to overlook our faults. Including me most of the time.

I can definitely see how we could appear completely insane to someone born into a different culture. Here are a few things that came to mind... Pretty "common sense" stuff, really.

- As we continually verbally and physically flame other nations for their "weapons of mass destruction," we conveniently forget that we were the geniuses who dreamed up most of these lovely cocktails, and we didn't do it for entertainment purposes. We are still the only nation on the planet to ever actually use nuclear weapons on other human beings. Of course we believe we had no choice... And it may be true. On the other hand, the aftermath was as horrific as war gets, and if there are people in the world who think we're insane for having done that, I can't blame them. Oh, and how many napalm bombs did we drop on Vietnam? All I'm saying is this: Our track record hasn't been forgotten by the rest of the world. We didn't only invent them, we used them. So, when we start hammering on and on about these weapons as a pretext for war, it's not a big stretch for me to understand why there are nations in the world who aren't buying it. In their eyes, it's our fault this garbage is out there in the first place... And I don't have a defense for that one... Do you? (Yes, I know the USSR created plenty too, but we now know about the incredible amount of spying that was going on during the cold war... It was a collaborative effort.)

- The fact that we were more than happy to ally with Saddam Hussein's "regime of terror" when they were warring with Iran is a very large part of this story. Do we really think our guys in the White House didn't do their homework before getting in bed with this guy? Of course they did. I'm getting really tired of hearing how amazing and technologically advanced our intelligence agencies are, then claims of ignorance when the tough questions come up. Either way it looks bad... If they knew, they knowingly helped a brutal dictator solidify his power, and if they didn't, they were blind fools! I'd like to know what was said and done behind closed doors at the end of that war. There were probably some asses on our side of the table, too I'm afraid... No conspiracy theory or even much imagination needed.

- Election 2000. Good lord. Surely we can all agree that it was a horrorshow. Too insane for me to comprehend. I have little opinion on the final outcome except that we would have appeared more intelligent if we had just flipped a coin to break the tie. The world was laughing, friends. I think "damaged" might be a good way to describe our image of democracy to the world. The idea that we're the allmighty bearers of justice and democracy might sound a little ridiculous from the outside right now. Just a thought.

As far as the conspiracy theories go, I can't point to any particular stories that I believe or disbelieve. However, I do think the right-wingers need to give the theorists a break. I have one favor to ask of all right wingers that spit on conspiracy theories: Flip on the History Channel and watch some of the programs on intelligence and counter-intelligence during World War II. A lot has been de-classified... The schemes they came up with were truly genius and insidious in many cases. Assume all of the tactics you see are completely obsolete (if they weren't, they wouldn't be declassified). Since our government, military and intelligence agencies are larger and more advanced than ever, why is it so hard for you to believe that the underground tactics haven't become even more bizarre? Everything else seems to have progressed at an incredible rate... 60 years later? Yeah, I bet there are some sketchy things going on. Such as? Oh, like they tell me anything... :)

The statue photos? They're not proof of anything of course... But it's no mystery that the government wants the media on their side, and giving them those kind of powerful images makes them happy and gives them awesome intros and outros from commercial breaks. Good for ratings. Did the soldiers make sure the camera crews were all ready to shoot before they pulled the statue down? At the risk of sounding juvenile here.... Duh! (sorry.. it won't happen again)

No, it doesn't look like there were many people there, but there could be many reasons for that... There was still heavy fighting going on at that point. I wouldn't be looking to join any crowds, either.

I feel for the Iraqis. They must have no idea who to trust at this point. It's not as if America has treated them well lately... We have a lot to prove. The latest decree from Washington doesn't help... "You can have a democracy, but you can't choose an Islamic government." Oh ok... Any other candidates you'd like to disqualify? If the majority ends up wanting that form of government, and we prevent it, we'll make liars out of ourselves. Ouch.

My apologies if this is in the wrong place, but from what I read, there are no limits.

that circle just has a relatively few Iraqis milling around. Maybe 150 at most out of a Baghdad population of over 5 million!! And they were just standing around. Definitely not like the fall of the Berlin Wall. Its almost obscene to make that comparisoon. Not even close to the fall of Milosevic in Belgrade. This was totally staged by the US. 150 is pathetic. Even if that number was 1500 (which it is nowhere near) that is still pathetic. This is an American coup; why deny it.

The reason that this staged 'media event' was not largely photographed/covered by reporters other than the embedded ones that are on Pentagon salaries, is because the palestine hotel was attacked by marines shortly before the statue was pulled down. Fired upon by a tank. The reporters in the hotel were never able to provide proper coverage, and that seems very intentional. The marines said they fired because they saw a reflection on the top of the hotel. Follow this link for more information on this 'wars' photos:
www.thememoryhole.org/media/evening-standard-crowd.htm

The Hessian wrote these quotes a while ago, just wandering if their ready to retract it yet. Or maybe they stopped paying attention when Fox shifted it's focus?

You're right! Why would the people of Iraq want freedom? Why would they want to get rid of a ruthless dic...I mean, glorious hero of the people?

Hey, how have we given the Iraqi's freedom? By collapsing their economy (I thought ours was bad, they're now near 100% unemployement)? By refusing to hold elections? By putting the Ba'ath apparatus BACK into power?

Screw you moonbats...one of my young neighbors died so Iraq could be free and 9/11 won't be repeated. He was 19, and not even a U.S. citizen, but he knew what it meant to love one's country, even his ADOPTED COUNTRY, and to be a part of the solution - not the problem, like you freaking parasites.

The war your young neighbor died in is a guarantee that 9/11 will happen again (look at the bombings in May). To say that invading Iraq is wrong is not unpatriotic, it is the sign that someone is CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THEIR COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT.

How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history, along with the Charles Lindberg Hitler lovers, the ol' Communist Party USA, etc?

Bet it sucks.

Give me one reason why the anti-war movement was on the wrong side of history. One. Everyone of their positions has been vindicated.
Were there weapons of mass destruction? No.
Was Bush lying about them to start the war? Yes.
Has Iraq become a quagmire, militarily and economically? Yes
Has terrorist activity against the US risen? Yes
Have the dittoheads on the right failed to notice this? Yes

Hitler lovers? For opposing the US President (not by vote) who has taken more of the liberties of America than anyone since John Adams. Who holds people in 'camps' in Cuba without trial, who levies the title of traitor against any who dare to speak out against him. Go read the history of Hitler and the Riechstag fire, then go take a good long look at Bush and 9/11, and then try to use that phrase again.

Bet it sucks.

So, let's pretend the statue pulling down thing was a consipiracy. A conspiracy for what? First of all, why would we pull down a statue and show it? To show the americans that saddam is dead? sure why not. so what? is he really not dead? We must have paid him to give us his country. Is that what you're getting at?

Stupid blind patriots piss me off, you think you're a patriot because you have 34 flags on your fuckin front lawn??? well FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!! A flag in one hand and a gun in the other is not how i want to live! "Ooo what's the point blah blah blah" The point of showing it is to say,"Hey Americons, the Iraqi people are happy we're here to blow them to bits and run them like their last dictator" It's just to blind us with coverage that says Iraq is happy we've come. I don't really know if the photo is true or not but i do know that the statue tearing down was staged. It had to have been because those people loved Saddam because he could preach to a choir that said,"Yes all western civilizations are bad" which is untrue but it is what we're baby fed into thinking so that we can buy more flags and send our sons off to a foreign land to be killed. Everytime i pass by a house with a million flags, i can't help but show my gratitude....with my middle finger. FUSA

Propaganda ? What the hell else would you expect from Prince George's corrupt government. The war started with lies and will end with more lies. And the Republicans were worried about a few blow-jobs and for years distracted the Clinton Administration from doing much of anything - including anti-terrorism work. How about worrying about ten thousand dead Iraqies, 600 innocent -if gullable- American soldiers and our relations with the rest of the world. Bush wants to get the US out of the UN and then spends billions of our dollars enforcing UN resolutions. Hippocritical bastards.

Yeah, the US military had the entire square cordoned off, so how come they let some of the Iragis in? How were they sure that none of these Iraqis were pro saddam? Well, it was because it was all staged. The anti saddamers were part of the CIA backed/ funded/ owned Iraqi national Congress. There were hundereds of statues of saddam around the city, so wasn’t it convenient that they chose the one outside the Hotel Palestine where all the world’s media were based.
PsyOps targeted at other nations have effects on domestic views, we're all being fed propaganda, and are asking for seconds

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

story.news.yahoo.com/news=
/latimests/20040703/ts_latimes/armystagemanagedfallofhusseinstatue

[i]The Army's internal study of the war in Iraq (news - web sites) criticizes some efforts by its own psychological operations units, but one spur-of-the-moment effort last year produced the most memorable image of the invasion.

As the Iraqi regime was collapsing on April 9, 2003, Marines converged on Firdos Square in central Baghdad, site of an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). It was a Marine colonel — not joyous Iraqi civilians, as was widely assumed from the TV images — who decided to topple the statue, the Army report said. And it was a quick-thinking Army psychological operations team that made it appear to be a spontaneous Iraqi undertaking.

After the colonel — who was not named in the report — selected the statue as a "target of opportunity," the psychological team used loudspeakers to encourage Iraqi civilians to assist, according to an account by a unit member. [/i]

Dumb people.